Monday, April 17, 2006

Illegal Immigration: What The Hard-Core Conservative Opposition Thinks

Take a look at this PoliPundit post and you'll get a pretty good summary. Be sure to read the comments, too. They capsulize pretty well the debate within conservatism over the immigration issue.

Fred Barnes thinks the modern Know-Nothings like PoliPundit have lost the debate, and that Republican opinion has already swung toward President Bush's enforcement + guest workers approach. As I posted a couple of weeks ago, there's lots of evidence to support that view. what I find surprising is that many of the commenters at PoliPundit seem to regard anyone who supports a guest worker program to be a RINO (Republican In Name Only). That's how certain they are that their view represents the majority within the party.

This debate has taken place in American politics before, also among conservatives. As I posted earlier:

Many in the anti-guest worker bloc bristle when they are compared with the Know-Nothings, but the uncomfortable similarities are there. Notably, the Know-Nothings were out of business after only a couple of election cycles, and in 1860 a new national party called the Republicans elected to the presidency a man named Lincoln, who was a fierce critic of the Know-Nothings:

I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we begin by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty-to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.
In this blogger's opinion, we need to control the borders, normalize those who are here already, and have some faith in American culture and the English language to assimilate the newcomers. It is true that we run a great risk if we continue to allow unchecked illlegal immigration, because that seriously endangers assmilation. Is is toward such open, lawless immigration that the anger should be directed; it is there that we'll find the most important key to solving the problem. But if enough Republicans continue to insist that their agreement to a program for controlling the borders is conditioned on the total absence of a guest worker program, then we are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good and we may well see the Democrats controlling Congress. What kind of immigration policy will we have then?


Blogger samrocha said...

Hi! I found your Blog and BlogSearch, I think the dialogue on immigration is very important and must be discussed from all perspectives.

With your insights I would love to have you take a look at a mini-series I wrote on the subject and, if you want to, join in the dialogue…

My url is:

Posted by samrocha

Monday, April 17, 2006 3:13:00 PM  
Blogger SkyePuppy said...

n...have some faith in American culture and the English language to assimilate the newcomers. 

I guess I don't have much faith in our culture and language to assimilate our newcomers, because the mouthpieces of our culture (media, education, and the like) have dedicated themselves to keeping people apart through hyphenation. Even more, they promote anti-American sentiment in our children and in the children of our newcomers.

Our newcomers may assimilate in what they do (work, have children, hang out with family and friends), but unless we instill a love of America in both the new and the longtime members of our society, we will lose who we are. Our fight is not so much with the people who want to come here, but with the people who have a stake in keeping us apart.  

Posted by SkyePuppy

Monday, April 17, 2006 4:54:00 PM  
Anonymous mitch said...

One quick point - until ALL government business at all levels is conducted in English, forget assimilation. The only exception could possibly be emergency medical care. This will require a Constitutional amendment to bypass the Federal judiciary, and the chances of this happening are slim and none, and Slim left town. 

Posted by mitch

Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:52:00 AM  
Anonymous DL said...

Amnesty now -no two party system tommorrow!
Large numbers of conservatives will stay home for the election -the "one issue" lie will meet the "my party no matter what" foolishness head on. If the illegals stay we won't need to worry about elections -for what purpose -law and order?

If I want a liberal party I can vote Democrat -now it doesn't matter - RINO mean "Remember I'm Not Obligated"

We need a swap program -one caught illegal lets in one waiting legal immigrant -why not?


Posted by DL

Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:19:00 AM  
Anonymous nash said...

". . .a program for controlling the borders is conditioned on the total absence of a guest worker program"

Is this sloppy writing or an intentional distortion of the anti-AMNESTY position? Shame on you either way. 

Posted by nash

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:50:00 AM  
Blogger The Hedgehog said...

Nash: The hard-core opposition to the Bush plan says "absolutely no" to guest workers. Do you have some information to the contrary? 

Posted by The Hedgehog

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger The Hedgehog said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous nash said...

Download the powerpoint and check out slide 13, 14, 15 and 17. Amnesty for illegals is soundly rejected. Guest worker programs for those who play by the rules are supported. 

Posted by nash

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 5:30:00 PM  
Blogger The Hedgehog said...

Nash: Let's talk about my post, not whatever it is you're talking about. I looked at that web site (against my better judgment) and found that what you are talking about (apparently) is something called "the Krieble Foundation 'Third Way' plan to create a new private-sector guest worker program." Description:

"That plan would require all illegal immigrants currently living and working in the United States return to their home countries. There, they could immediately apply for new temporary guest worker visas linking specific workers to specific jobs through private U.S. employment agencies licensed by the federal government. Each applicant would undergo an instant background check by the F.B.I. and Department of Homeland Security before their temporary guest worker visa was granted."

That's not what the post above is about. 

Posted by The Hedgehog

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what YOU wrote:

"The hard-core opposition to the Bush plan says "absolutely no" to guest workers. Do you have some information to the contrary?"

So I found a link to a poll of Republicans that says a HUGE MAJORITY  of Republicans supports a guest worker program that is not tied to amnesty.

That same majority opposes the amnesty you seem to support. 

Posted by nash

Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:10:00 AM  
Anonymous nash said...

In other words, stop trying to link amnesty with a guest worker program since you're in the minority with that one.

Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:28:00 AM  
Blogger The Hedgehog said...

Nash, I am not talking about amnesty, you are. None of the proposals that are being seriously considered in Congress is about amnesty. And poll after poll shows that Americans favor allowing the illegals already here to earn their way to citizenship. As for the poll you cite, I've never heard of that organization and I don't see anyone but you citing their polling data. Anyone can do a poll. Be careful about accepting such polling data. 

Posted by The Hedgehog

Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:13:00 AM  
Blogger SkyePuppy said...

But if enough Republicans continue to insist that their agreement to a program for controlling the borders is conditioned on the total absence of a guest worker program... 

I'm with Nash to the extent that I believe you're mischaracterizing the majority Republican (grassroots) position on this.

I'm against a guest-worker program only  (President Bush's apparent preference). I'm against a guest-worker program first (the Senate's apparent preference).

I'm for the Border/Immigration folks first showing us that they have the willpower and manpower to stop the flood of illegals pouring across the border and drop it down to a trickle. Then I would be willing to look at a guest-worker program or whatever other program they come up with, because I'd be comfortable that it wouldn't get out of control and invite a new flood of illegals.

But if we set up a new program that we're unable to enforce, then we'll just be inviting more problems and displaying more impotence against an overwhelming tide. This isn't "allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good." It's allowing the realistic to be the enemy of the wishful thinking. 

Posted by SkyePuppy

Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous nash said...


Dick Armey is the Chairman of FreedomWorks. He's the former Republican House Majority Leader. He authored the "Contract with America" that led the "Republican Revolution" of the 1990's.

Here's the link to the organization that did the poll for FreedomWorks:


Posted by nash

Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:54:00 PM  

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